Category: the Rant Board
Oh the stupid NFB thinks you have to be so much exactly like a sighted person! I'm so sick of them telling blind people how to live! And sending them to those stupid NFB centers and trying to brainwash tme there to think like they do. NFB, mind your own freakin business and get out of people's lives! Stop trying to make all blind peope alike, because we're not, so deal with! Not all sighted people are alike either! So stop trying to make us exactly like sighted people!
In general, yes, the NFB does drive me nuts, but some people may be members, but not agree completely with some of the NFB's ... uh ... ways of doing things. I don't think this poster intended on bashing anyone on this site who may be a member of the said organization, but I do see her point. the NFB does have a tendency to take a lot of shit personally, like that movie about blind people in an insane asylum, or something like that. Apparently, they've written to the producers of the show Saturday Night Live and complained about one of the sketches because it portrays the governor of New York in a negative light. I did not read the entire story because it just frusted me so. Why the hell can't they just lightn up? Sheesh.
With all do respect, i've been to an nfb center, and I feel it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Yes, some members can appear to be militant, and radical, but so much progress has been made of attaining first class cidizentship for those of us who are blind. The nfb is like any other organization in life, one must decide what they wish to take from it's values/philosophy. Also, the nfb has made a great many strides in the area of rehab agencies, and I think we should thank our lucky stars for this. It wasn't so long ago that most agencies simply put blind persons in sheltered workshops, and did little else to further there successes in life. So, if you're going to bitch and complain about the nfb, you might stop and think about the path that has been forged by our previous successors. Example" it wasn't so long ago that blind men and women were not allowed to walk the streets without a "care taker.' If they were to have an accident, such as being hit by a car, it would be the fault of the blind individual. It is because of the persistance of this organization that a travisty of a law no longer exists. I rest my case.
Cordially
I don't quite follow, how does the NFB try to make all blind people alike?
How are they trying to make all blind people like sighted people?
Do what I do, just ignore the NFB and it isn't a problem.
Agree with post 3. I've recently come to recognize and appreciate the value of the NFB; but it certainly doesn't represent my life, and like any individual I agree and disagree with certain aspects and views taken. for example, the constant press releases regarding Blindness, the movie, and the SNL joke are just examples of where I strongly disagree with the NFB. But, it only has to run your life -- and make you so angry, as you sound -- If you let it.
I am a member of the NFB, but like others have said, you can be a member and still disagree with things the organization does, or stances they take. For example, I am very much in favor of accessible currency. I understand why some people don't like them. I hated the NFB for most of my life. For any of you that know about Star Trek the Next Generation, I used to call the NFB the National Federation of the Borg. But that's because all the people I'd met who were Federationists were drones. It took me getting to know a lot more members to realize that most of the every day rank and file member is not like that. Most do have their own minds and lives. But of course, it's the drones that somehow get all the notoriety.
I personally am a member because I more often than not agree with what the NFB does and believes. When I don't, I voice that disagreement. The Federation has its faults, no question about it, but I still don't think that negates the good it has done for blind people. That, and if everyone who disagrees with the Federation leaves it or ignores it, how can changes be made to it?
However, like OK Sure , I don't entirely follow about it trying to make blind people like sighted people. The message seems to be the opposite: don't be ashamed of your blindness.
Nymphadora, as far as the SNL skit goes, think about this. You can believe that any other minority, portrayed in such a light, would be throwing an even bigger shit-fit than we did. For example, if the SNL crew made fun of Barack Obama based solely on his race, he, the NAACP, and half the country would be totally up in arms, and rightfully so, I might add. Making fun of him based on his race would be wrong. So why is it okay to pick on one minority while another is off limits?
I'm writing this as a person who isn't a member of neither consumer organization. Having said that, I don't discount the strides both have made for individuals who are blind or visually impaired. If one is intelectually honest, one must be ready to have his/her beliefs challenged. Either one of two things will happen: One will change his/her mind and/or belief, or one will continue to feel more convinced that his/her belief works for him/her. The Point I'm trying to make is that to totally dismiss the NFB and their philosophy out-of-hand is a mistake. They have indeed made positive strides for those of us who are blind.
Lou
this is interesting and I have a few thoughts. one thing I am against is the currency stance by NFB. I would like to know when I give someone a 20 its a 20 and I am getting my change back. I Personally have been ripped off by people switching money on me, even though I new I had say a 5 in the pile. I also here that they are against sounds for crossing streets. Having experienced hearing loss, I have become afraid to venture out because I don't want to put myself or anyone else at risk.
Putting that aside, yes some of the people are strong, and this could be said for the ACB as well. I prefer to make my own choices, and it appears frowned upon if you choose to join both. I wish some issues both organizations would get together on and fight, examples, weather alerts, accessible money, sounds for crossing streets and especially getting blind people into jobs. Just my thoughts. Brian
LOL, agreed with post 5! :)
Wow! Nothing but complaints this morning! Lol!
Anyway, I agree with teardrop on this. I personally am a member of the nfb, but that doesn't necessarily mean i agree on everything! Sure, i really admire them for most of the things that are done, and a lot of the people I look up to are nfb members, but I, as well as anyone else, have my own beliefs as well. I dont think there is a "way"" a blind person "should" live, but rather any way a person wants to, just like a sighted person would. There are different ways of doing things, and it's all about the person and what they perceive is correct. I do, however, think that one of the main reasons the nfb wants to do things such as putting people in training etc, is so that in spite of our differences, as one, we can learn the essentials to make a good impression for people such as employers. I agree with most of the stuff the nfb does/believes, especially because they have really made a lot of things better in a positive way for all blind people, But it's all about what a person thinks is best for him or herself. But I do think they should do someting about the street thing, especially because of the cars they're coming out with! You cant always depend on people to watch out for you it's just not going to happen. People are always on cell phones etc. But yeah, just my opinion! Smiles!
I am a member of the nfb. I joined up because I realized they could help make my life better and threw the organization I ha have a shot at makeing many others lives better. Yes I agree, its the people that act like NFB drones that really give the stariotypical image to nfb. But the o organization is always open I've found. I've even had chat's whith the president of the nfb where we both had different stances on an issue. the organization really doesn't try to shape all blind people into one mold, rather it aims to give the members and all blind people a chance to be the best they can, No,I don't agree with its stances on some issues, but even so, I see good in the organization still.
But its slightly anoying when people bash the organization who've never really attempted to either
A. Fully understand its pholosiphy and ideals or
B. just bash it because they are part of another organization.
I've even hurd the president of the nfb say things like "if you don't like our organization, You don't have to stay apart of it, I'll explain why you should, but when it comes down too it, You should doo what you think is best for you."
Just my take on it...
and sorry for the typo's and such, can't correct them with this comp because of some jaws issues.
I agree with the original poster for the most part. Their "training centers" are a little extreme. For example, there are a couple thing that blind people should not teach other blind people. The 2 main ones I can think of are cooking and mobility. At least in the beginning, when the blind person has no experience with those tasks, another blind person should not be teaching them because it could become unsafe, and a blind person shouldn't be teaching mobility period. that's just irresponsible. If the training centers are supposed to mae you fearless, then I'm glad you all survived them and have now adopted that philosophy. I'm not trying to stereotype, but the arrogance a lot of members of the NFB have is sickening. The average sighted person doesn't walk around thinking they're hot shit because they're sighted, right? So why do these self-righteous NFB members, who are so focused on integrating into normal society, do the very thing that wwill turn the average person away?
I agree with screaming_turtle I went to a NFB camp when I was 7 years old. The person teaching mi mobility was blind, and if that wassen't worse enough. He was walking backwords I asked him why he was walking backwords he sed because he wanted to talk to me. I don't agree with a lot of there views, and there canes are annoying, and hazardous. I was young back then, and they did not ask me if I wanted to use a NFB cane they just took my other cane, and gave me a NFB one.
Yeah, that's not cool. You can have your own views on things, but don't try to convert other people or force them on somebody else. Then you're a cult.
I don't think that the sighted mobility teacher I learned from had any shortcomings, nor could he do better or worse than a blind instructor. At the same time, it makes perfect sense to me to learn from someone who's "been there, done that;" in other words, assuming a blind instructor has excelent skills in travel, he or she is almost in a better position to teach travel than a sighted instructor. Using another analogy, isn't it better to learn English from an English instructor and not a math professor? If you don't think that a qualified and experienced blind person can actually teach mobility, you might want to consider your own expectations about your ability to travel as a blind person.
An NFB cane is hazardous only if you don't know how to use it. Come to think of it, any cane could be hazardous if you don't use it correctly, no matter what kind it is. And thanks for your comments, ArtRock.
As a person who has taught mobility for several years, I disagree with the premise that blind people can't teach mobility. There are always exceptions to that rule, however, if the blind person knows how to teach as well as travel independently, it is possible. I agree with post 16, in that the belief in general that a blind person cannot teach mobility may be a reflection of the learner's beliefs about blindness, and the capabilities of blind people.
Lou
I think a blind teacher could teach theory, but when actually out on the streets, I want a sighted teacher watching me to stop me from doing something dangerous. The mobility teachers I had usually gave me a route and then followed far behind me but close enough to catch up with me or shout out if I got into a dangerous situation. How would a blind teacher do that?
Becky, you raise a very good question. In answer to that, I can only tell you how I taught. I worked very hard inside to make certain that my students had good cane techniques. We would practice crossing progressively wider hallways so I could hear if they were inclined to veer to excess, and then, we would work on techniques to minimize the veering. If there were objects in the individual's way, I'd observe to see how they problemsolved their way around them. I might ask questions to see how they were processing the information they got from their canes, any remaining vision, their hearing, and any other environmental cues. I don't teach mobility now, because frankly, my hearing has deteriorated, and while I trust myself to travel, I don't think it is ethical for me to knowingly potentially put someone else at risk. Some people have told me I should continue teaching mobility, but I can't look myself in the mirror, so to speak, and feel like I'm doing the right thing.
Lou
In adition, to what I said about the ability of people who are blind to teach mobility, I honestly believe that vision alone isn't a criteria that factors into the decision. I've seen some really irresponsible mobility instructors who are blind, and some really poor mobility instructors who are sighted.
Lou
I see what you are saying, but practising in halls does not guarantee safety out in the streets. The world is way different then in a hall way what someone does in a hall way is not how they will do it on the streets. Its louder, and there is traffic in the streets sure a hall has trafic like ppl walking, but I mean cars. Blind ppl can give tips, but I don't want some one blind teaching me mobility. Its a sad fact that you got to face blind ppl can't do everything some things are better tought by a sighted person.
I agree with Becky, it would just make me feel weird to have a blind person teach me mobility. And to post 16, if that was meant as an insult, I know my cane skills need improvement, so I didn't take it as one. I'm just stating the truth. A sighted person can observe what you're doing and help you make corrections better than a blind person could. This is the thing about the NFB that makes me so mad: there are just certain things that blind people can't do. Can we drive a car? Nope, and although it might happen sometime in the future, we need to be realistic now. Saying that a blind person can teac mobility as well as a sighted person is like handing them keys to your car and telling them to take the wheel. It's just as unsafe.
what i don't like of what i saw of the nfb, is this, I went to ccb got called a bitch by the counselor in my apartment because i talked too quiet i was sick and she said something like try taking public transportation when you come in. the other thing is they told me i was not allowed to use my cane and gave me somethin taller than i was. I signed a contract between ccb myself and the state saying they would not require me to do this and that they would not make me wear sleep shades they still tried to force the issue. All the classes were good but home management because the instructor was my apartment counselor who seemed inclined to think i didn't know a thing even though i taught her some stuff like that tupperware can be put in the microwave. Most of the other students were great but i thought the whole danged staff and some of the nfb leaders were well a bit over baring and milatant and It was really off putting. I was told i had to go to nfb chapter meetings which the cotract said i didn't have to do so i nailed them on that as ell. I was a member of the acb at the time and it rankly pissed me off that they told me i had to do something when i signed a contract saying i didn't So, I left the whole bitch thing was the last straw plus the counselor wanted me and one of my other roommates to walk the other to the center in the morning so she could get there earlier and that the other counselors one of which i went to high school with felt sorry for her because she had such slow learners. I asked my friend about that he was pissed. But, i told the chick i aint the fuckin counselor its your fucking job do it. she made some sort of fuck you sound and i just made a fist pointed it at her and said any questions. she backed the fuck off and walked away. Needless to say i dont know this for sure, but i don't think missouri is sending many people to ccb without telling them part of what i had to go through.
ok i was at delco blind/sight center deleware county PA in 1991! the totally sighted guy eric couldn't teach mobility worth crap! also he was umm shall we say spending a little too much time near the ladie's room! anyway Jeff who only had 2 percent vision was a much better teacher and to this day I appreciate what i learned from him! also thank you for saying minimize veering not get rid of it as getting rid of veering will never happen!
How is having a blind person teach you mobility like handing over the keys to a blind person, and telling them to teach you, another blind person to drive? Doesn’t this statement point out that blind people shouldn’t be driving, and therefore blind people shouldn’t teach other blind people how to drive? In other words, blind people shouldn’t be walking around, therefore, a blind person, shouldn’t be teaching another blind person how to walk around.
The assumption that a blind travel instructor cannot correct mistakes as well as a sighted instructor can, may be a product of thinking that you need to see, in order to correct mistakes. This is like thinking that there is only one way to teach mobility, or travel.
Personally, I don’t care about the instructor being blind or sighted, as long as they are good at what they do.
The one instructor which I have had for travel/mobility was sighted, and she was not good at all.
The travel skills which I have picked up, have come from observing Two NFB members and how they use their metal tipped long canes, (they don’t have to be non-folding) which I might add, is much better if one is a fast walker and constant traveler.
I hate to say it, but a lot of times, you can tell who is an NFB member, and who is not, just by cane skills alone.
Post 25: I went to Dellco 2 summers ago, and I had no problems with them at all. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Maybe the instructors were different people back then, but let me tell you, Delco did a hell of a better job than the NFB ever could! They gave me confidence in myself that no one else ever tried to do. When I was there I felt like I really accomplished something and that I was appreciated.
Ok sure: I was simply pointing out that sometimes, the standard way of doing things is the best way. Sure, there are horrible sighted mobility instructors. I had one in 5th grade who, for about half a year, made me go into the store and buy him chips and party mix and what not. So I'm not trying to say taht sight is the determining factor of whether a mobility instructor is good enough. What bothers me is the fact that these blind instructors are teaching little kids, who don't always have the best judgment. How can a blind instructor "watch out" for their safety when kids do unpredictable things? Sure, a sighted person can't prevent all accidents either, but they can respond faster and see danger when it arises. Maybe a blind person can teach a blind adult who's looking to make their skills better, and already has the basics down. But in the early stages of teaching, that job should be left to sighted people. The car analogy was to point out that blind people can't do everything, and we shouldn't be ashamed of that, we should accept it as part of life. Sure it sucks sometimes, but that's just the way it is, and trying to force something that shouldn't happen is, like I said, similar to handing a blind person a set of car keys.
hmm, yet again, we come back to the points of the nfb fanaticals in the organization representing the hol hole thing. yes, some members act like there hot shit just because of the organization, everyone seemes to act like there hot shit about something sometimes, that doesn't make it ok though.
Seccondly, I would trust a blind O&m instructer if they proved they are trust worthy. shure blind people can't doo everything but isn't it better to try than to sit on your ass doing nothing, just accepting that you can acheeve only m the bare m minimum. hmm, what if lui braille just t thought, ok, blind people arn't ment to read and just stopped there? what if blind people thought they wern't ment to be able to t travel, cook, live full productive lives so never tried? where would b we bee now? isn't this blind people not being able to doo everything a bit of a coppout? sure, I understand that we will never be able to doo everything as well as a sighted person, but its a bit pathetic to use it as an excuse...
I think this is an issue that is constantly evolving. The skills and abilities of blind people are ever-changing thanks to the creativity of blind people, the belief by blind and sighted people that blind people have capabilities, and technology. I mention this last, because it is ultimately what is between the ears and behind the eyes that makes up the person and his/her capabilities. I can honestly say that I wouldn't teach someone if they wren't comfortable with me doing the teaching for two reasons. First, While I believed in my capabilities, I wouldn't force that belief on anyone. Second, a student needs to have a great deal of trust in the teacher's ability and judgement. If the trust factor isn't there, no amount of persuasion on the part of the teacher is going to make a student believe in that teacher's ability. Going back to the blind vs. sighted mobility teacher issue for a second, there is a growing number of sighted instructors who are accepting of mobility instructors who are blind. I only mention this to point out that perceptions of what people who are blind can do is constantly changing.
Lou
I would correct that statement and say, that so far, there are a couple of things which blind individuals cannot do as well as sighted individuals can.
If a blind travel instructor cannot teach a child mobility skills, then what is the expectation for blind parents who will be the child's first and most important teachers?
Screaming Turtle,
first, notice that I made reference to your expectations about your abilities to travel, not your abilities. Of course I'm not going to insult you; I don't know you, and to do so would be ridiculous and unfounded. My comment simply raised the question of how your thoughts of blind instructors teaching the very skill they use all the time might reflect on your expectations about travel, not your actual travel skills. Nothing more.
In stemming off of Post 30's comments, I think the question of safety needs to be addressed. Again, If you think a blind instructor cannot teach travel to children due to safety concerns because children are unpredictable, would you also advocate that children of blind parents should be raised by sighted parents until they're older and less likely to cause trouble, get into accidents, and do unpredictable things? Or, would you go even farther and say that blind parents cannot parent effectively because it would be hard to track and monitor their children?
I'm not preaching, I'm simply asking and trying to highlight and examine stuff I find. Moreover, I'm not trying to go down any slippery slope, but I think this stuff does need to be examined. And, I'll agree with TheDevilsBlade in that often such comments about limitations are used as an excuse. Years ago, it was thought that blind people could not be contributing members to society and hold mainstream jobs; fifty years ago, it was thought that blind children could not largely be served by a public school system and would need to go to a special school; and who knows what expectations might or might not be shattered tomorrow or the next day. It doesn't mean it's not worth examining or trying, though.
Totally agree with the last post. Well-said!
Lou
I had a partial teach me mobility during my time at the school for the blind, and I learned more from him than anyone else. I don't know about a totally blind person teaching, but if someone can do it, then that is cool. Like I said before, I am afraid to join any organization, I like to think for myself, and support the causes I feel are important. As far as cooking, I learned from a sighted person, and they were good at explaining. You can learn from anyone, you just have to put your own efforts into it. Just my thoughts.
The difference between parenting and teaching is that the parents aren't under a legal obligation to keep their children safe. If a blind mobility instructor puts their student in an unsafe situation (not on purpose of course) and something happens, won't that imply that blind instructors can't be trusted? I'm not saying it should be that way, but in our society we get stereotyped enough as it is, and people are always saying blind people can't do this and that. So as soon as 1 of us makes a mistake it makes it suddenly OK for the rest of us to be judged because we're a minority population. Also, I don't think that anyone should use their blindness as an excuse for not doing something, but there are certain limitations we have to face, like I said before. That doesn't mean anybody is making an excuse as long as there's a valid reason for the blind person not to be doing whatever it is they're not comfortable with. In my opinion, I would feel very uncomfortable with a blind instructor teaching me, let alone any kids I might have, because I just wouldn't trust it. But if the rest of you see nothing wrong with it, and you have reason to believe that it's just another way for blind people to integrate into society, then I guess you have your own reasons for thinking that. But I would have serious reservations about it.
In general I like learning from other blind people because they've been there done that. In a situationif I'm learning a spesific long teedius root that needs to be learned quickly then I'd rather learn from a sighted o and m instructor for the simple fact that both of us having to adapt to the root would take some time, but other wise I think if they can teach it and are blind great. To the point of the board topic. I've been a member of the ACB and like some policies, but I can't agree with any one organization 100 percent. There are some things that put me off about the nfb, but having gone to some of the acb state conventions and some local meetings with people just as gung ho loving on the ACB I wanted to back off from there as well. The thing is we all have different views. If one organization supports your views more.... go with that one if you want to be part of a voice. If you want a government to hear you, if you want your state officials to hear you, you're better off with a group than as one person standing on the road in front of capital hill screaming how you want accessible currency. That's the reason I'd say being with a group could be useful, but always think for yourself. It's a shame for anyone to let someone else think for them. Oppinions are great, but you make who you are an organization, a hobby or course of study doesn't.
To the poster before me who posted at the same time as me. Parrents in a sense are legally responcible to take care of their children blind or other wise. This is why foster care is in existance. If the state does not think that you take proper care of children (leave them alone to young) etc your child will be taken away. Therefore I have to call your first argument a bit less valid.
I am a member of the N F B but do not follow the doctrine.
Our state's NFB "branch" pushes the message by singing songs:
"oh, we'll be crossin' all the highways, here we come. We'll be walking on the sidewalks when we come! Oh, you say that we can't do it, so we'll just have to prove it. We may not be seeing but we're not dumb" (that's what they call a shoe horn in parities.)